Honesty and transparency

Scams
1

So I’ve made a few calls via bobrtc.net and I approve of taking it to the call scammers.

However, I would really like to see some improvements in both the documentation and the transparency of the process for choosing targets for scambating.

For example, bobrtc.net just gives you a list of phone numbers, a general description of what the scam is, and then you go at it.

The problem with this approach is that it's impossible to know whether the "scammer" in question is actually a scammer, or someone that the mods just wanted to target. It is impossible to know what the history of the number is, or find details as to whether a business is real, etc.

As a result, I would like to suggest & request that bobrtc.net and indeed all scambaiters write and adopt a Code of Ethics.

We need to be more scrupulous in documenting exactly why the numbers in question have been verified to be scammers. We need details of what kind of scams are being perpetrated, how long they have been going on, etc.

Ideally, I'd like to see a complete log of all attempts to call that number and their results.

Additionally, I'd like to see full and open documentation of that scammer's attempt to scam money out of people.

Ideally, I'd like all calls to a scammer to be made public after editing out any personal info.

Otherwise, scambaiters are just a weapon that could be targeted at anyone irresponsibly.

The ability to attract new scambaiters and make a sizable problem for the scammers, is dependent on the scambaiters' ability to run a squeaky clean ship.

And the community at large has to have rules of engagement, with the ability to check up on one another and make sure we are doing what we say we are doing.

I sincerely hope that as a group we can be moving in that direction.

If we succeed in keeping the work on the side of the angels, I think that scambaiting could make a really positive difference in the world.

2

Following … very interesting ideas.

3

@fredgarvin#131140 a number can be on BobRTC if we call and they say we are IRS or SSA or CRA or Microsoft or Apple. as soon as they say “Thank you for calling microsoft” we know it’s a scam, and microsoft has a half hour hold time so it is easy to tell.

4

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5

@fredgarvin#131140 I understand that it may seem like just about any phone numbers can appear on the platform, with little to no verification, but I assure you a lot goes on behind the scenes that regular users never see. The team of administrators and moderators is also quite small, and very well trusted, a keen eye is kept on phone numbers added, even by it’s own staff team. An overwhelming amount of phone numbers on the platform are or were literally someone answering as “Thank you for calling technical support, how can I help you”, where the person then proceeds to obtain money from you in an unfair/untruthful way. I do understand though that not all phone numbers in the phone book lead to fake technical support ‘companies’ obviously, and I am aware that people’s opinion/reasoning as to why a certain company and service should be classified as a scam, can vary greatly. Leaving this is the sole discretion of the sites admins can be concerning, especially when you don’t their general policies, or if everyone is required to follow them. So I agree, I think a general explanation regarding the sites determination process of what is and isn’t a scam would be good, and it would definitely give more reassurance to users feeling leery of the phone book’s contents. Keep in mind though, and I don’t want this to come across as rude, you and anyone else are welcome to research the posted phone number yourself in order to gain more information. Previously, users could provide links back to this forum site, so they could delve into future detail on the phone number posted, even if it wasn’t theirs. Due to some disagreements between the two platform owners however, that feature was removed unfortunately. I can say though that there will be a solution to this relatively soon, that should satisfy at least a few of your concerns above.

Thank you for the concern.

6

@Norm_Harrison#131150 thank you for your explanation. As someone new, both here and in bobrtc.tel, I too am very interested in seeing improvements in the “system”. From the eyes of a newbie, I saw “shortcomings” (no offense meant) that can be resolved rather easily. I am referring to the area of communications among scambaiters. While on a call, you could chat with others on the same call, but I believe those chats are gone after you leave the call. I believe a forum with a more or less permanent record of discussions about individual numbers with instant posts and responses will help greatly. Waiting for approval by moderators doesn’t cut it when you need to interact on the fly. I suspect stuff got out of hand in the past, throw in a lot of immaturity in the mix, and that’s how we ended up with this.

As for myself, I tend to limit my baiting to impostors, e.g., SSA, IRS, those pretending to be AT&T, Comcast, PG&E, Walmart, etc. I don't let anyone in my computer, that is way above my pay grade. So, it is almost always just wasting their time and getting entertained in the process. I have no illusion of taking any one scamming operation down, but hope that I am contributing in bogging down their system. That's why a quick response system would be really valuable in mucking them up.

Thank you for letting me in the soapbox.