@PikaPikaGamer#146994 i think jim browning is doing the right thing he only doing it to scammers
as far as we know thats a good thin fuck with them so thay cant rip people off
@PikaPikaGamer#147637 This may be the wrong crowd for an ethics debate for who most of us have known as morally bankrupt people who most often delight in stealing from your grandmother.
But lets examine your question of ethics into question and lets say many of us have some base level of sympathy for those who presumably have no choice but to impersonate legitimate businesses and government employees to rip off the innocent.
The real villains here are the call center bosses. The hapless employees earn some meager wage to support these reprehensible enterprises. Similarly, the laptops, phones, and networks are tools of these same bosses. Targeting the MEANS of criminality, not the poor call center employees personally, isnt unethical at all. Attempting to neutralize the criminal operations (vs. the people) is in fact be one of the most ethical hacking efforts I can imagine.
@Rogue_Halo#147337
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Also, in his [Kitboga’s] Discord their is explicit rules that state no talk of scambaiting can happen as it can lead to racial or other forms of abuse that may negatively impact Kit’s career as a Twitch Streamer/Youtuber, which he cannot afford as it is his full time gig.
I'm not sure if that's a valid reason lol. TLS obviously allows talks about scambaiting and yet I don't think we have problems with racial/other forms of abuse and certainly does not affect the carrier of YouTubers. Otherwise, Jim Browning, me and all the other YouTubers wouldn't sit in Discord.
@Chop#147681
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I do believe it is although unethical that it’s fine to rat the scammers as long as your intent is non-malicious.
Your statement doesn't make sense actually. If you think it's unethical then you also think it's *not* fine to rat the scammers. If you think it *is* fine to rat scammers, that means you think it is indeed ethical for the intent of scambaiting/stopping the scammers.
@PikaPikaGamer#146994 Ethics? Are you kidding? These people have threatened me with gang rape, mutilation and murder. They have no conscience, no guilt, and no soul. THe lengths to which these people will go to get a buck is endless. I have no sympathy after doing this probably longer than any of you, 11 years, when you were still in grade school. Don’t tell me how unethical it is to infect their system so that they do not scam old people, poor people and what they think is a blind girl. Give me a break.
@NeeP#147842 What I meant by ethical was the legality, I used the word wrong, thanks for correcting me.
@JusticeinTexas#147858
Right, and that's why I didn't say every single scammer is like this, because obviously, no.
But I still don't think it's right to put a blanket statement out there.
I didn’t think I’d be opening Pandora’s box with this one thread.
jim browning is a god of scammer baiters. Hes the only thing saving us from scammers from india from the microsoft, internet security department, vacation services, air duct cleaning, refund department, and bank scam. He is literally the only one who has professionally busted a call center in india and had it professionally documented. The police here wont do it thats for sure, they feed the scam with their poor performance. He did a better job than the highly funded police. Look at the result, is was glorious, watching those criminals get arrested by their government for crimes outside of their country. They were released tho because there were no victims in india for them… ASK YOURSELF How do they get released. They commit serious financial crimes and are wanted in the state of texas…
I see him as quite informed and am amazed at his work. Reminds me of the people I used to work with back when I used to do scam investigating and spam reporting (before I got sick and all that went on the back burner). I enjoy watching him and learn more by doing so. I mean, reporting the scammers doesn’t seem to get as much done as what Jim does. Jim actually makes a difference and has saved a few people from making the biggest financial mistakes of their lives!
They’re scammers. F*** 'em.
If an arrogant, fowl mouthed young adult can knowingly steal from an elderly senior citizen (& then brag about it, they have no remorse), than an intelligent IT security expert can penetrate their networks, leak their information, & shut them down by any means necessary. From the leadership to the phone agents, every one of them little shits belong in jail, & worse.
@ScamChod#147719
That perspective is a classist/Marxist view on it (“Its not the fault of the workers/employed thieves, its the fault of their bosses”) which is is partially right. Their bosses take most of the money and provide the infrastructure for the individual scammers to do their thievery. The bosses are guilty too and deserve their weight in lead. But the individual scammers are no better. Decent people with a conscience don’t survive in a scammer job. Those quit quickly once they put 2 and 2 together. What you’re left with is with the scummiest but most effective bunch, whom we often encounter at the other end of our calls.
@vadim#148010 Whoa…no not at all. It happens to be true; I love this forum but for real impact we need the ability to identify and target the direction of the MONEY. Based on what Ive heard from the low level callers, the bosses have just as much distain for them as we do. They are considered disposable. We have always been one level of abstraction from the root cause, the people who actually make money in this revolting enterprise. Since there is grinding poverty in places like India and Pakistan, there is nearly an unending resource of desperate people willing to do this over some other unimaginable means of supporting themselves. (If you ever watched the documentary Born Into Brothels, then you will know what I mean.)
What is missing here is a comprehensive response from our respective federal governments to identify and punish the organizers. Cutting off the head of the snake may not entirely kill it, but its the type of cybercrime that can be effectively combatted. Sadly there seems to be no appetite to DO anything at the government level.
@JusticeinTexas#147858 thays whay we scammbait mate so stop prick scammers ripping people off and stop them threatening people i got some videos on youtube doing mario voice to waste scammers time
whats the number of the ones threatening ill phone them up gave them shit for you ill wast the time id love to have them threatening me like that id lol on the phone to them and tell them i jest done it to your mom haha fucking scammers ill gave them shit for threatening to to gang rape you and i dont gave a fuck ill let them connect to my vm ill infect them with a virud that will lock the keyboard and mouse and block there accsess to syskey
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@vadim#148010 That perspective is a classist/Marxist view
Not only Marxist ... in fact it has been knows as the "Nuremberg Defense".
"Superior orders, often known as the Nuremberg defense, just following orders, or by the German phrase Befehl ist Befehl ("an order is an order"), is a plea in a court of law that a person—whether a member of the military, law enforcement, a firefighting force, or the civilian population—not be held guilty for actions ordered by a superior officer or an official." - copied from the fountain of knowledge, Wikipedia :-)
I’ve got a new angle…I run NorthWatch (the fake bank for refund scambaiting).
Tools like BobRTC are obviously legal (except for call recording, that is a bit of a gray area) since they are just a VOIP platform, but what about tools that you use during the bait to try to prolong the amount of time you are wasting? Is it ethical to waste more time by using tools that emuate or fake the real thing? And is it legal?
I would love to hear everyone's thoughts, here are mine:
I say it is perfectly ethical, any tools that contribute to wasting the time of scammers seems fine in my book, and deceiving them with a fake bank isn't worse than anything they do.
Legally, I am fine here in the US, since we clearly state in the ToS (that none of the scammers read) that the bank is fake, and we never claim to be FDIC insured or anything, so it isn't like we are are lying to people.
@Rogue_Halo#148156 key board is not working right
“Police, there’s a guy from YouTube who hacked into the security camera’s of our scam call center where we call innocent people and scam them out of millions of dollars a year but can you investigate further please?”
I wouldn't imagine it's ethical and he would properly get into trouble but it's not like they can go to the police to report it.
Jim Browning only gets access to a scammers computer when the scammer connects to his computer then the scammer surreptitiously copies the file marked passwords , ONLY when the scammer tries to open the stolen password file is he Rat’d . If the person connecting to Orson’s computer was a legitimate technician they would never get rat’d . therefor only criminals attempting to steal from him are unknowingly giving Jim access
I only wish the people who rat these “theives” would wait until they see the scammer use his financial institution and then take the scammers money ,NOW THAT WOULD BE GENIUS !! , if anyone wants to do that i will willingly let them transfer to my account